Jump to content


Photo

Fresh Air Exhaust SUCKS!


  • Please log in to reply
111 replies to this topic

#61 SkySki

SkySki

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,119 posts
  • LocationArizona

Posted 17 August 2012 - 02:59 PM

I would have rather had the choice of dual exhaust and the option of adding an FAE from the factory.


going forward this will not be an issue since converting to Indmar...

all have dual exhaust :-(


Next boat ;)
2012 MB Sports F21 Tomcat

#62 SkySki

SkySki

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,119 posts
  • LocationArizona

Posted 17 August 2012 - 03:04 PM

Thinking out loud - if I put an FAE on, should I remove that piece and plug that 2" thru hull fitting? I will get in there on Sunday and see how it is connected to the exhaust. Hopefully it would just need to be removed and a flexible hose could be switched out to a longer one. I am not laughing at that cork it up comment anymore. If I add an FAE with that 2" exhaust port, it kind of defeats the purpose right?
2012 MB Sports F21 Tomcat

#63 lenmann

lenmann

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 47 posts
  • LocationNorCal

Posted 21 August 2012 - 09:55 PM

I spoke to Mike B at the Sac Boat show earlier this year about the exhaust "bung". He said the PCM Cat motors are very sensitive to exhaust back pressure and the quiet muffler they used on the pre-cat motors was too restrictive. The big concern was that PCM wouldn't honor warranty claims. So, they took some of the baffles out of the muffler at the expense of noise reduction. These mufflers were installed on early 2011 single exhaust tip Cat equipped boats (like mine). My boat is much noisier than the VLX had had prior and my buddy's non cat MB's. Subsequently in an effort to reduce the noise, they designed the resonator chamber shown in a previous post adding the second exhaust outlet. One question I have had as I have followed the FAE thread is does the "scavenging" effect of the FAE reduce or increase back pressure at idle, mid-throttle, full throttle? I would love to quiet my boat down some.
2011 TWB

#64 Shawndoggy

Shawndoggy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,089 posts
  • Hometown Lake:Pyramid Lake, NV

Posted 22 August 2012 - 12:03 PM

it clearly decreases backpressure at speed (the venturi sucking effect), but what it does at idle? Not sure. My boat is like yours... 2011 cat motor with single tip. Is there even anything in the muffler? I can stick my arm in mine up past the elbow.

I'm finally pretty happy with mine but holy moly has it been a process getting it dialed in.

#65 lenmann

lenmann

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 47 posts
  • LocationNorCal

Posted 22 August 2012 - 01:27 PM

Shawn, are you satisfied, now that the FAE is dialed in, that performance hasnt been decreased?
2011 TWB

#66 Shawndoggy

Shawndoggy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,089 posts
  • Hometown Lake:Pyramid Lake, NV

Posted 22 August 2012 - 01:32 PM

I should probably take it off and put it back on again for a "for reals" comparison, but for now I'm happy with the performance. Shortening the amount by which the downpipe sticks into the water by an inch (increasing the Z measurement in FAE-speak) seems to have made all the difference.

I'm still getting a bit of wash on the wave, but I don't have the plate and I always got a little. I'm going to try the Duffy Mahoney flap this weekend and see if that knocks it down for good.

#67 TheSqueakyWheel

TheSqueakyWheel

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 308 posts

Posted 22 August 2012 - 01:40 PM

I'm still getting a bit of wash on the wave, but I don't have the plate and I always got a little. I'm going to try the Duffy Mahoney flap this weekend and see if that knocks it down for good.


I've considered that too but it looks so ghetto. let me know how it works.

I also agree that "dialing it in" is a PITA. It's not out-of-the-box ready.

Shortening my vertical struts seems to have eliminated the power drain I initially noticed as well.

#68 lenmann

lenmann

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 47 posts
  • LocationNorCal

Posted 22 August 2012 - 02:08 PM

Thanks, I think i will get one.
2011 TWB

#69 SkySki

SkySki

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,119 posts
  • LocationArizona

Posted 12 February 2013 - 08:08 PM

Shawndoggy, how are you liking the FAE? I have been emailing back and fourth with Larry. I think I have all of my measurements ready to send over to him. He was a little surprised by the extra exhaust port. I started asking him what he could do about it, but then he made a statement that I believe to be true - the extra port should close shut once the Venturi starts to pull the exhaust out of the FAE. So now I am not worried so much about that port anymore. Is there anything you ran into during your measurements or installation that you would do differently? I am going to get the flapper option he offers as well as the electroplate finish and the quick disconnect. When measuring, I was going by his diagrams and measuring the centerline compared to the prop. I was wondering if you have seen any pull one way or the other once you let off the gas or at idle speeds since the prop and rudder don't line up then the FAE will line up with the prop. I assume very little if any or someone would have mentioned it somewhere. I am going to test out my stock 1433 and new 2079 prop this weekend, weather permitting, so I should have a good idea of the effects of the FAE addition in the coming months. Last question, what did you have to do to adjust the Z measurement? Is it a matter of cutting the two supports? Those look like Bimini components.
2012 MB Sports F21 Tomcat

#70 Shawndoggy

Shawndoggy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,089 posts
  • Hometown Lake:Pyramid Lake, NV

Posted 13 February 2013 - 01:35 PM

I'm taking it off to start the season.

I very much like what it does for engine noise in and especially behind the boat. Best stereo upgrade ever.

However, even after adjusting it, we had a big drop in holeshot, which I just can't see being good for the motor. Also, I got lots of spray on our wave. I set up a mud flap to address that, but it was pretty janky looking and still didn't catch it all.

Part of my issue with the FAE is probably due to my limited fab skillz. I'm not a machine shop guy by any means, just a DIY hack. And even under the best circumstances, the FAE kit is more of a "suggestion" than an actual guide for installation. The FAE seems/feels hella macguyvered together and I don't have access to a nice shop to clean up or address some of the kit's shortcomings.

Larry is great in his responsiveness and willingness to make suggestions, but he leaves all of the execution of the install to the end user (and by that I mean customizing the parts that he sends you). All in all I felt a little set adrift in the install part of the scenario.

So I'm going back to basics next season, with no FAE and see how we deal.

#71 guitarcrazy

guitarcrazy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 86 posts
  • LocationMontana

Posted 22 March 2013 - 07:46 AM

I also installed FAE on my 2012 B52 23V last year at the end of the season. It worked great for lowering the sound output of the motor, but I had issues similar to Shawn. I have the PCM with single exhaust,straight pipe with no turn-down tip. I do not have the extra exhaust port luckily. I noticed a bit of a drop in power, but worse, the FAE kept coming off underway. Larry sent me a stronger clamp, but even that wouldn't keep it on the tip. My tip is cut at a 45 degree angle approximately, so there isn't much surface area to grab on the bottom of the exhaust. When it came off the last time it bent the threaded rods that support the FAE, so Larry sent me new ones. I will try those this spring, but I am also going to shorten the FAE, and change the angle in hopes it won't drag as much, and hopefully stay connected. I really like what it does for the sound and emissions, but if it won't stay on it isn't very useful.

#72 Shawndoggy

Shawndoggy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,089 posts
  • Hometown Lake:Pyramid Lake, NV

Posted 22 March 2013 - 09:29 AM

I also installed FAE on my 2012 B52 23V last year at the end of the season. It worked great for lowering the sound output of the motor, but I had issues similar to Shawn. I have the PCM with single exhaust,straight pipe with no turn-down tip. I do not have the extra exhaust port luckily. I noticed a bit of a drop in power, but worse, the FAE kept coming off underway. Larry sent me a stronger clamp, but even that wouldn't keep it on the tip. My tip is cut at a 45 degree angle approximately, so there isn't much surface area to grab on the bottom of the exhaust. When it came off the last time it bent the threaded rods that support the FAE, so Larry sent me new ones. I will try those this spring, but I am also going to shorten the FAE, and change the angle in hopes it won't drag as much, and hopefully stay connected. I really like what it does for the sound and emissions, but if it won't stay on it isn't very useful.


100% agree. Installed with the worm drive hose clamps mine fell off within 10 minutes. I re-installed with t-bar hose clamps and that solved the issue. Not sure why Larry even ships with the worm drive clamps because this is a pretty common issue across many installs (not particular to MB).

Did larry give you a piece of exhaust tubing that slides over the boat's exhaust tip? If so, double clamp that up as close to the transom as possible (with the t-bar clamps). And then for the fae, make sure you are installing it under the exhaust tip, not over. that way it's holding onto the tip, not just the exhaust hose. Double clamp that too with tbar clamps, and it won't come off.

How are you going to shorten the FAE? Just cut it off on the exhaust end (I've considered this myself).

#73 guitarcrazy

guitarcrazy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 86 posts
  • LocationMontana

Posted 22 March 2013 - 12:47 PM

I installed it as you suggested, with the FAE under the exhaust tip, but it still came off. I even used a bunch of silicone adhesive the second time around, thinking it may provide enough friction to keep it from slipping out, but it still came off. There is only about an inch or so of the FAE that is held inside the rubber exhaust tubing, and it doesn't give a lot of real estate to clamp to. I will either cut mine on a band saw, or take a cut-off wheel to it. I will match the profile of the cut as it came from Larry. I am thinking that if it was about an inch shorter it may not drag as much. I am hoping anyway.

#74 Shawndoggy

Shawndoggy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,089 posts
  • Hometown Lake:Pyramid Lake, NV

Posted 22 March 2013 - 12:50 PM

We're you using the t bar hose clamps? They make all the difference.

#75 guitarcrazy

guitarcrazy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 86 posts
  • LocationMontana

Posted 22 March 2013 - 01:19 PM

He sent me one, and I used it on the transom side. That one held. I used three of the worm gear clamps on the FAE side, and it slipped out. I was going to try to get more T Bar clamps but the season was almost over so I just put it away and figured I'd try to fix it this season. As you said, it is certainly not a plug and play piece of equipment.

#76 Shawndoggy

Shawndoggy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,089 posts
  • Hometown Lake:Pyramid Lake, NV

Posted 22 March 2013 - 01:37 PM

yeah if you install it the way I was explaining but with the t bar clamps, you won't have a problem with it coming off. You can crank the living $hit out of them. I double clamped on both ends of the exhaust tip with good results.

And by "good results" I mean it didn't fall off. :whistle:
  • SkySki likes this

#77 SkySki

SkySki

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,119 posts
  • LocationArizona

Posted 04 April 2013 - 10:39 AM

Where are you guys getting the t-bar clamps and what size are you using? Just in case I need to get some quickly.

 

I get the FAE tomorrow. Probably won't start that for a week or so. Still need to finish the ballast. Crossing my fingers I can get it done this weekend.


2012 MB Sports F21 Tomcat

#78 Shawndoggy

Shawndoggy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,089 posts
  • Hometown Lake:Pyramid Lake, NV

Posted 04 April 2013 - 10:59 AM

ebay. though if you want the wallet lightening gratification of RIGHT NOW, it looks like summit racing carries them.  http://www.summitrac...13/media/images

 

With a single tip pcm exhaust DO NOT EVEN BOTHER with the worm drive hose clamps.  you'll likely bend or break something and the FAE is nearly guaranteed to fall off.  Even if you double clamp everywhere.  The T-bar clamps just get soooo much tighter.


  • MidnightV10 likes this

#79 SkySki

SkySki

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,119 posts
  • LocationArizona

Posted 04 April 2013 - 12:35 PM

I just placed an order through the local O' Reilly store. They have two of these available and two more coming from California. I didn't have to pay for them to order them, so I am curious what you think of these. They say 3/4", so I wonder if I can double them - do you think I will have enough room? Since I am not planning on working on this until next week, I have time to order the ones from summit if absolutely necessary.

 

http://www.oreillyau...89&ppt=C0075#at


2012 MB Sports F21 Tomcat

#80 SkySki

SkySki

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,119 posts
  • LocationArizona

Posted 04 April 2013 - 12:52 PM

The local Grainger has 5 packs in stock for a little more and it looks like they are slightly thinner at 1/4" wide.

 

http://www.grainger....XGW3?Pid=search


  • MidnightV10 likes this
2012 MB Sports F21 Tomcat




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users