AZ_MB Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 So while I'm waiting for my fibula to heal I've decided I'm going to make some improvements to the audio system. It is currently stock so my goal is fix the things that were not installed correctly and add a little new equipment as well. Based on other threads I've read, here is my plan: What to fix: 1. Sub enclosure leak: I tested the sub enclosure by feeling around the edge of the woofer and can feel air coming out. Wylietunes mentioned sealing it up with some foam weather stripping. I'm planning to use something like this (http://www.homedepot.com/p/M-D-Building-Products-3-8-in-x-17-ft-Foam-Weatherstrip-Tape-02253/100353460?cm_mmc=Shopping%7cTHD%7cG%7c0%7cG-BASE-PLA-D25H-Hardware%7c&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpbqcneL11gIVhYJpCh0zDgUnEAQYAyABEgJGtfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=CKm64sPi9dYCFY18YgodsxEJ0g). How do I remove the sub? I see screws on the exterior so I assume I just loosen or remove those? 2. Wiring of in-boat speakers: Shawndoggy has pointed out several times that the bow speakers were often connected directly to the headunit and not the amp. So I'm planning to check this. Do I look at the headunit to determine this? If they are, what's the best way to reroute the wiring? 3. Wiring of the amp and dual batteries: I've read some comments about this being done incorrectly but I'm not sure what I need to check for. Can anyone tell me what to look at? What I'm adding: 1. Tower speakers: I decided on a pair of Rev10s. Since I'm not planning to add a sub I figured the extra mid-bass of the 10" driver would be good to have. 2. Amps: I currently have only the stock amp. I think it's a wet sounds HT-6 but there is no marking on it other than the wet sounds logo so I'm not sure. I'm assuming this is powering 4 of 6 of the in-boat speakers and the sub. Is this amp sufficient to power all 6 in-boats and the sub? I obviously need an amp for the tower speakers. Many here seem to like the Arc Audio 600.2. I don't plan to add an additional set of tower speakers so I think a 2 channel amp will work, but would appreciate suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wylietunes Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 1) that foam will work just fine for sealing the woofer basket gap. Yes, remove all visible screws but support woofer prior to removing last one. Grill should come off and woofer might come out as well. If it still feels secured, might be 2 more screws holding behind the grill. 2) Easy was is to carefully remove the small turn-on wire from the amp so the amp does not power up. What ever speakers are still playing when you power the stereo up, are NOT powered by that amp. Need to know what amp for sure, before you can wire the bow to the amp, if needed. The shinny Syn-4 cant do it, but the silver/gray amp with black end caps should be the HT-6 and can support 2 more speakers. 3) fallow the amp's battery positive (B+) cable and see where it goes.Odds are, it goes to one of the batteries and NOT the switch. With adding an amp, Id not worry much about it and run a new trunk line to support both amps. DO the same for the B- cable for the amps. Good choice for the Rev-10. For a single pair, a bridged Syn-DX4 is hard to beat. Its not only marine, but closed chassis where as the Arc is non marine and fan cooled. The DX4 is also a little more efficient. AZ_MB and Birddog7.62 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_MB Posted October 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 Need to know what amp for sure, before you can wire the bow to the amp, if needed. The shinny Syn-4 cant do it, but the silver/gray amp with black end caps should be the HT-6 and can support 2 more speakers. Thanks for the input! This looks like an HT-6 right? If so, can it power all 6 in-boats and the sub too? Mobile audio amps are new to me so I'm trying to learn about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wylietunes Posted October 16, 2017 Report Share Posted October 16, 2017 Yes, the 6 chnl HT-6 can drive a 6 and woofer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_MB Posted October 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 Which one is the small turn-on wire? The blue one labeled REM? I only see 5 speakers wired up so there must be a pair on the head unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wylietunes Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 Yep, the blue REM. Its common for the port and STBD main cabin pairs to be wired in parallel with only a homerun from one speaker to the amp. So the lack of another 2 pairs is not enough to tell anything. AZ_MB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Analog Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 Looks like you're on the correct path. I like the HT-6 a lot better all high-passed and in a discrete mode (a single 4-ohm speaker per each of all six channels). Whether now or down the road, you might consider adding a Wetsounds HTX monoblock or 2-channel to drive your subwoofer. Either way, you would want to figure this in your supply cable selection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_MB Posted October 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 Looks like you're on the correct path. I like the HT-6 a lot better all high-passed and in a discrete mode (a single 4-ohm speaker per each of all six channels). Whether now or down the road, you might consider adding a Wetsounds HTX monoblock or 2-channel to drive your subwoofer. Either way, you would want to figure this in your supply cable selection.Does high-passed and discrete only have to do with the way the speakers are wired to the amp or do the amp settings need to be adjusted? Here are the current settings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wylietunes Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 Basically, what David is getting at is that in the long run, the amp would be a little more comfortable running just the 6 in-boats, one speaker per chnl and all chnls set to hi-pass. With bridged woofer and 3 pair of in-boats, 2/3rds of the amp chnls will be at their minimum safe load of 2 ohm. thats a pretty decent load for the amp to drive. David Analog 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_MB Posted October 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 Basically, what David is getting at is that in the long run, the amp would be a little more comfortable running just the 6 in-boats, one speaker per chnl and all chnls set to hi-pass. With bridged woofer and 3 pair of in-boats, 2/3rds of the amp chnls will be at their minimum safe load of 2 ohm. thats a pretty decent load for the amp to drive. Makes sense. So If I'm going to get an amp for the tower speakers, should I get a 6 channel and bridge two channels for the tower speakers and then drive the sub with the remaining 2 channels? David Analog 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wylietunes Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 im not overly concerned about the 6 speaker and woofer load on the HT-6, given that you already have it in place. Building from scratch, it would be worth considering a dedicated amp for the woofer. Going with a 6 chnl for the towers and woofer, would then have all 6 chnls running at 2 ohm, the minimum impedance load for most amps. This is also compounded by the fact that the tower zone and woofer zone are typically the hardest driven zones in a boat. WHen I can, I like to keep towers and woofers on separate amps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Analog Posted October 17, 2017 Report Share Posted October 17, 2017 Mike provided a good explanation. And sure, a single six-channel from an upgrade Wetsounds series would also work well for both tower and sub, especially if the greater power is such that you aren't having to run the amplifier at its full potential. Two ways to keep an amplifier running clean and cool....4-ohm or well under potential. This would keep the system limited to two total amplifiers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H20king Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 I basically have my system set up like Dave recommends. I took the factory ht6 and put each in boat on its own channel then added a WS htx2 for the sub and installed a set of rev 10's on a arc 600.2 It is not the biggest system I have done but it is super solid . AZ_MB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_MB Posted October 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 Yep, the blue REM. Okay this might be a stupid question but I don't want too break anything. How do I release the wire from the amp? I don't see any screw. I pressed on the plastic a little but was afraid to break something. I did remove the sub and explored the box. It looks reasonably solid with the exception of one hole. I'm thinking I need to patch this with a fiber glass repair kit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_MB Posted October 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 Two ways to keep an amplifier running clean and cool....4-ohm or well under potential. This would keep the system limited to two total amplifiers. I'm looking at a Syn6, but a pair of rev10s and the sub would be about 80-90% of it's power right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wylietunes Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 Pull that whole 5 wire connector straight out, flip it over and you will see a small flat blade screw head. If your boat the Wet Sounds 10FA woofer, that enclosure really needs to be opened up, rather then closed sealed in, IMO. The SDX-6 would be a little better amp option for that configuration. 585W rms x 3 is way more then the woofer and rev-10 would need. Also, the SDX-6 just got a revision to make it even better for driving a woofer and full-range speakers. New model is shipping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Analog Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 AZ_MB, If you are referencing the discontinued model, avoid that Syn6....as it's class AB, fan-dependent, with exposed pots & chassis interior, and a bit lite on the power for the Rev10s. Fine in its day but today better options are available. If you meant the SYN-DX6, then that's a good choice. Or, the SDX-6. As for the sub box form....if you have a perfectly sealed 2.0+ cu.ft. enclosure then you can get optimum results from an infinite baffle 10" sub. If that's the case, I would not only seal the openings but substantially reinforce every seam. If your cavity displacement is well short of 2.0, then you would want an opening into the gunnel/console that approaches the woofer radiating surface area. However, the caveat is that the isolation distance between the subwoofer front radiation and rear radiation needs to be at least four to five feet apart. So follow the rear path and get an idea of the distance before the rear output would exit into the open cockpit space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_MB Posted October 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 If your boat the Wet Sounds 10FA woofer, that enclosure really needs to be opened up, rather then closed sealed in, IMO. Yes, it is the 10FA. I looked up the specs and it says open air or 1.3 cu ft enclosure. Assuming the box is at least 1.3 cu ft, you still prefer open air? As for the sub box form....if you have a perfectly sealed 2.0+ cu.ft. enclosure then you can get optimum results from an infinite baffle 10" sub. If that's the case, I would not only seal the openings but substantially reinforce every seam. If your cavity displacement is well short of 2.0, then you would want an opening into the gunnel/console that approaches the woofer radiating surface area. However, the caveat is that the isolation distance between the subwoofer front radiation and rear radiation needs to be at least four to five feet apart. So follow the rear path and get an idea of the distance before the rear output would exit into the open cockpit space. I'll measure the box to determine the volume, but I'd guess it's a little over 1 cu ft and well short of 2 cu ft. Regarding the rear radiation, is this the distance from the woofer to the back of the box? If so, it's less than 1'. This photo of the exterior should help to visualize it's size and shape. MB glassed in panels to the starboard side and the rear bottom (just below the seat back of the rear facing seat behind the captains seat) to seal the enclosure. Thank you both for all of the input. I really appreciate the help learning about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Analog Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 As short as I can keep the explanation....1.3 cu.ft. is specified by Wetsounds as the bare minimum sealed box size, but the 10FA won't sound all that great in a box that size. A true infinite baffle subwoofer exerts greater control/damping over the cone movement. For any true IB sub, the enclosure should be large enough so that zero additional control/damping is added. 2.0 cu.ft. minimum up to infinite accomplishes this. Too much control = poor low bass extension, and a more singular tonal character. Too little control = extended low bass, less power handling, less punch, and a bit lifeless, lower energy. Hate to use this analogy, but tuning a subwoofer is just a little like matching a vehicle weight to both the coils and the shocks. There is a sweet spot. Too loose and you have a marshmallow ride in a rolling land yacht. Too tight and you are riding in a jackhammer. Birddog7.62 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_MB Posted October 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 Well I'm almost certain it's not 2 cu ft so it sounds like I need to open it up. Does it matter where the opening is or the shape of the opening? You said the size should be the same as the woofer radiating surface. So roughly 3.14*R^2 = 3.14*5^2 = 78.5 sq in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wylietunes Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 Shape and where wont matter to the woofer. One large is better then multiple smaller. In a perfect world, yes, the opening to shoot for would be equal to or greater then the woofer surface. This may not be feasible so get too hung up on exact numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_MB Posted October 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 It looks like the easiest thing to do would be to knock out the panels MB glassed in. The edges don't line up perfectly (see post #14) so I don't think it will be to difficult to cut around and remove the entire panel. Have you done this on MB's previously? Just want to be certain before I go cutting things apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wylietunes Posted October 19, 2017 Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 as long as its not a panel used to support the weight of the seat box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_MB Posted October 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2017 Pull that whole 5 wire connector straight out, flip it over and you will see a small flat blade screw head. Okay, removed the 5 wire connector and left it out while powering the head unit on. (No need to remove just the turn on wire and plug the connector back in right?) No sound came from any of the speakers. Guess a pair must be connected in series like you said. as long as its not a panel used to support the weight of the seat box. Good point. I better just remove the one on the side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_MB Posted January 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2018 Finally have an update to post. Cutting fiberglass is hard, lol! I didn't have many tools that could fit in the 10" opening and a drill was the only power tool I had that would fit. I ended up having to use it for the horizontal cuts through the fiberglass panel. The vertical cuts I was able to use a keyhole saw since it was the tape holding panels together and not nearly as thick. It certainly isn't pretty, but the cutout is larger than the woofer surface area so from an accoustic standpoint I think it's good. Steve142 said his "box" is open on his 2014. I wonder if MB stated leaving them open at some point? Either way, glad this is done. It was quite a pain and took me 3 cutting sessions to finish up. This was my first time cutting fiberglass so I'm sure there was a better way that I could have done it. Before I reinstall the woofer, would it be good to line the inside of the "box" with anything from an accoustic standpoint? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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