Boat help while surfing low rpm

[Farfanugan]

Hey guys I'm be to the MB family but super excited. I'm new to the forum thing so hopefully I'm not hijacking any other post. I have searched a lot and haven't found anything. We searched far and wide to find our first v-drive boat and decided on an MB. We have a 2014 B52 23ft 6.0L engine, new prop is an acme 2419. I'm having an issue while surfing. I think we have roughly 2400lbs total hard tank and I have added an additional 650 bag on each rear side. We are having a hard time reaching surfing speed. It's driving me crazy! I'm sure it's something I'm doing or not doing,I think the boat is operating mechanically fine. No matter what I do I would never be able to plane if I had all the ballast filled. That's fine I guess but I wanted to be the guy with a monster wake surfing at least 10 ft back from the swim deck. I learned surfing like 2 ft away from the deck and it's scary. I assume the engine has enough power to push that much weight. I went from an acme 1235 to the 2419 which I thought would be a huge upgrade but it seems to act basically the same as the 1235. I have noticed that my rpm's will not go over 3k while surfing. I kind of assumed that the engine would be kind of like a car engine using cruise control. If it need more power to get to a certain speed it would work harder to get there, or go up in rpm since there are not multiple gears to use. It just stays at 3000rpm and won't go higher so that means either we surf at a slower speed or we surf with less weight. The boat will go over 3k rpm when zero off is off. I have contacted zero off speed control and they thought I might need to redo the computer software of zero off. I have also searched the internet a little and some people has said they had to update the ECM on the engine. I just don't know what to do. I assumed that getting a new prop would have fixed the problem but it didn't. Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way. Maybe less weight is more wake for our boat. Maybe the boat can't do what I want it to do. Any help, info, suggestions, criticism, will be much appreciated. Sorry for the long first time post.

[bloodiestcadaver]

I have heard of people having the zero off setting to limit a certain rpm. have you tried surfing without the cruise?

[OrangeTJ]

Sounds like a zero off issue to me if it will get to speed with the system off. Your boat should have plenty of power to make it happen, even with more weight than you are running (I’ve run over 5000 lbs in my F22 - not on plane but at surf speeds.)

[Farfanugan]

I haven't tried to surf without using zero off. I have also heard of the zero off limiting rpm's to a certain number but when I spoke with zero off he said he didn't think that was the issue.

[OrangeTJ]

Try surfing without using zero off. If you are able to get to surf speed, the problem is with zero off.

[meetloaf13]

There was another member with the 3K RPM problem a month or two ago, can't remember if it was posted here or the Facebook page.

 

I believe several recommended reflashing firmware at the dealer.  You should be able to get over 3K RPM.

 

One thing you should consider is  more weight in the bow, it will help you plane.

[Farfanugan]

I will try more weight in the bow. Thank you. I will also continue to look for the other thread with my same problem.

[Farfanugan]

I will also try to surf with out using zero off. We are heading to the lake in ten days but if u can find a solution to this I might do some test days before to make sure it's fixed. I guess I forgot to mention we boat between 3500ft and 5700ft elevation. Sorry for not including that.

[The Donfather]

Your perfect pass is in rpm mode.

 

Turn off perfect pass and run boat up slowly till you got 10.8 .

 

How is then baot set up for surfing . On a 14 you run listed so full ballast tank on surf side 1/2 non surf side. Run 400 in the nose and run 1100 rear locker surf side

[Farfanugan]

I will give all that a try. I think we are going to go out this Saturday for a drive to try all this stuff. Thanks for all the replies.

[Farfanugan]

That weight setup is about what we run.

[Farfanugan]

Today, 04:15 AM

Ok MB peeps I just got back from the lake. It is 5700ish ft elevation. I tried all different configurations and it still won't go over 3000 rpm. Not with zero off on or off. It will hit speed if I am just using the stock hard tank but I just want to use more weight for a bigger better wake. A few weeks ago I swapped out my prop, 1235 to 2914 because I thought the prop was the issue before. It's like the last 2-3 inches of the throttle don't exist. It is the weirdest thing. I took a buddy with me and he agreed that something is wrong. I have been playing around with the settings in zero off thinking that I would be able to find a setting and correct the problem but I can't seem to find anything, not even rpm mode. Please let me know if you have advice.

[The Donfather]

Maybe tps (throttle position sensor) is set wrong.

[Farfanugan]

I'll check that. I don't know how but the internet might. Thanks.

[UNSTUCK]

I assume you're in Utah. From my experience, this engine, transmission, and ballast at our elevation does not work. However, you did say you could reach speed with just the hard tanks. Does this mean the engine would run past 3000 rpm, or was it still not able to go past 3000 with just the hard tanks full? You need to make sure you have fully removed the Zero Off as a possible issue. If you're running completely empty ballast what is your WOT RPM speed? Should be in the neighborhood of 5000 RPMs and your speed should be 25-30 MPH. If it is still stuck at 3000 RPMs, it's not an engine problem...yet.

[btbpreston]

I've had the 3k rpm issue happen to me twice while on the water. My boat is a 2014 F22 with the 5.7 motor. I was able to get it to go away by turning the batteries off for a minute and then restarting.

 

First time happened at the end of the day while we were cruising in. While at about 4k rpms and 30 mph the boat suddenly started slowing down.

 

Second time was the very start of the day. Idled out past the no wake zone, went to throttle up to cruising speed and was limited to 3k rpms.

I haven't had time to diagnose it, but it's been good for the last 20 hours.

[Farfanugan]

I am in Utah. WOT as off last night was 5000rpm and about 31 mph. That is with zero off "off". I believe zero off works perfectly except while surfing. I know it sounds crazy because I guess it either works or doesn't. I just kind of assumed that it was like a car cruise control, if it was not up to speed then the engine would work harder to reach whatever speed I set, the issue is that it doesn't work harder no matter what it goes up to 3000 rpm and stays there never higher while surfing. The rpm would usually be irrelevant as long as it hit speed but it doesn't. While wakeboarding it will reach speed. We are all over the place on what we wakeboard at because I have young kids so we wakeboard from 12-19 mph and it holds all those speeds. It performs basically the same not using zero off. If we are surfing not using zero off and we have hard tanks and bags full, that's 3700p lbs total ballast, plus people, it does the exact same thing as using zero off, it goes up to 3000 rpm and stays there. Whatever speed that gets us to is what it gets us to. If that's 9.5 that's it. I have tried using the trim plate and that might get us to 9.8 but it's still not that the speed is set to and it won't form a surfable wake. I will try to take a video of it today and see if I'm tech savvy enough to post it. I have tried every different configuration, setup, and setting to try to change it and I can't get it to perform any differently. Maybe it can't do what I want it to do. My buddy that came with me the other day said he thinks the wake is fine and every bit as good as his. That kind of pissed me off because he owns a 2008 tige 22 ft. I kind of assumed that a newer nicer bigger boat with more ballast weight would have a bigger nicer longer wake. (Ok breath, serenity now, hoochie mamma!) My zero off says "rev A" and I look on the internet and they are on "rev S" I don't know if that will make a difference. I think I am going to try to redo the firmware and go from there. If you have anything you want me to try to help narrow down the issue I will be at the lake until Tuesday. Sorry for the long post I just want to try to give a much info as I can to resolve this. Thanks again.

[mxvet]

I don't think you have the right prop on this. How did you come to the decision to put a 2419 on? I would say the 2775 or something in that neighborhood would be the prop to put on that boat. The fact that its limiting at 3000 sounds about right. Water conditions are going to depict your running speed. Call up the boatshack, they can help guide you.

 

Also that elevation kills HP.. You are going to lose a lot of top end if you prop to surf. 

[meetloaf13]

If you're up in the high mountain reservoirs you might need more prop.

 

But the RPM limit doesn't make sense.

 

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[mxvet]

When you don't have the right prop, it goes to a certain point and thats it. 

[Kscullawl]

If I don’t put bow weight in mine it does the exact same thing. It’s gotta be a weight issue combined with the altitude since all else seems normal.

 

With what you are running I would think you need 700-800 in the bow. That’s what I run and I try to put people up there too for length of the wave.

 

I can’t image a 12” prop being and issue especially when most OEM’s use 15” now

 

Do you have a Cav plate?

 

 

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[Farfanugan]

That's the reason I went to the 12 pitch prop. It came with the 1235 which is a 14.25 pitch and it basically acts the same with both props. I was trying to surf with a little kid this weekend (both of us on the board) and the boat wouldn't pull is out of the water. It's like it's missing low end grunt. It is the weirdest thing. Maybe it's just me. I have always been able to be pulled out of the water while surfing with a small child but for some reason it wouldn't pull us out. That might be an altitude thing. I would think that the altitude thing would certainly limit the performance but still have the boat try. My whole issue is that the boat doesn't try to get it to speed. It sticks to 3000 rpm and whatever I get is whatever I get. I can usually get a couple more points faster by using the cav plate but that's it. I chose this prop because it was recommended by acme. When I called them they recommended the 2079 then I asked about moving up in size from a 14.5 to a 15. The guy I spoke to said if I could fit it then that's what I should do. It's basically the same prop with one small difference, I think it has a little more cup. The guy who I bought it from is here in Utah and after talking with him he said that's the one he would recommend as well and the one he puts on all the boats he works on. He owns a company that helps boats surf better. He installs custom slapper kits on boats, etc. Super cool guy. He said what acme said, that prop for high altitude and/or heavy weighted boats. I also spoke with him about a 10 pitch prop just to make sure and he said he wouldn't go that far because it's like spinning a plate. So I went with what was recommended by acme and this other guy. This weekend I took a video but its a bit larger than the max upload amount. I will see if I can compress it and get it on the sight. It is just a video of my wake, I took it because maybe I should just shut up and be happy with it. I found that using surf side full hard tank and other side at 3/4 full running from 9.8-10.4 depending on rider did pretty well. Maybe that's all I get out of it. I just assumed I would get more. Maybe my expectations are too high or incorrect and I should just calm down.

[Racer808]

I’m at 5200’ & needed a 15”x10.5 prop, the Acme 2951.  I run full ballast & even with that prop I can’t get to surf speed without adding bow weight.  I have a 13 and find bow weight kills the lip of my wave so I choose to run less weight in the trunk & still have a long powerful wave.  I have the 2079 prop as well & it’s nowhere close to enough prop.  It’s a spare for us. 

 

Anyone that wants to trade for my 2079 cause they have too aggressive of a prop let me know.

[Kscullawl]

No way it’s not a low enough pitch prop.

 

So to recap the only time you are having and issue is when you fill your rear only bags along with your tanks correct?

 

All other situations are normal right? But you don’t have as much weight right?

 

 

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[Farfanugan]

Weight is the only issue. I have a total of 3500 lbs of ballast. 1200 hard tank each rear side with a 650 on each rear side as well. I don't have any water weight in the front, just people weight. If I tank all the weight away for let's say wakeboarding, the boat performs perfectly. But now that I am thinking about it, it seems like the hole shot has gotten worse. Like before I could surf with my youngest son and it would pull us up no problem and now it's almost like the pull is gradual and it couldn't do it last time with him. I really mean the boat couldn't pull us up out of the water. It had to feel like the boat wild pull your arms off if I just gunned it out of the hole. Now if I gun it the pull is very gradual. That's great for kids and newbies but not for anything else. Maybe it's bogging down when gunned. This problem is driving me crazy! I spoke with another guy today and he said that it's totally normal because my transmission is the thing doing the limiting. He actually finished my sentence before I could tell him my whole problem. Twas weird. I have had multiple purple tell me I need more bow weight. I'll try that the next time we go out, that should be Aug 3rd. I think I'm gong to try and have zero off firmware redone and possibly the ecm on the engine. Those are both things I have read about. I'll post what I continue to find. Thanks for all the help.