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HUGE problem... any help would be great


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Hey all, 

I am a first time MB owner.  Just came from a previous vdrive surf boat.  I've heard and seen good things about MB so I thought I would jump in. 

Bought a "2016" F22 tomcat.  Being that I'm new to MB boats, I didn't know enough at the time of sale to see that it in fact wasn't a 2016 just by seeing the boat and features, etc.  It was advertised as a 2016, and bill of sale says 2016.  

Just found out that it is a 2014.    I found out because I'm unhappy with the surf wake on the water, as well as the huge rooster tail spray coming out the rear end, no matter how I configured the cav plate.   I called and chatted with the dealer to find out what's up, and he after he told me its a 2014, he then said that these boats in that year need WAY more ballast (than stock) to get a decent wave.  He also said that these boats need a GSA on them to clean things up.  So.. basically add another $12,000 to get the GSA and plug and play system for ballasts.  

I was also poking around online and saw some guys blaming the swim platform for screwing up the wave.  Any thoughts?  

So, in a nutshell:
1) Surf wave with stock hard ballasts sucks
2) Wakeboard wave @ 18-20mph sucks... starboard side is OK, but port side is non-existent.  This is with both ballasts full.  Played with the cav plate as well with no luck fixing it
3) I've got a rooster tail out the back at any speed.  Again, cav plate helps a bit, but it's still there and very aggressive.  I can't tell if its the swim platform or not.  But I don't think this is normal. 

..... So.... to get this boat to a proper surf and wakeboard machine.... do I spend the $$$$ and upgrade to a GSA and plug and play?  Are the hulls basically the same from 2014 to 2016 or newer?   Would you agree that the only way to get a better wave is to add another 1000 lbs or more?

Sorry - lots to think about here.  Would appreciate your comments on just one or all of the points here.  Thanks again

 

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First off, if your bill of sale says the boat is a 2016 when in fact it's a 2014 you have a case of fraud on your hands and the dealer should be doing everything they can to make the situation right before finding themselves in court.

If you're not happy with the boat, this is a justifiable reason to return it and get your money back and report the dealer for fraud.

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Plug/play ballast can be a DIY job. Wake Makers has kits with directions and there are many "how to" videos. Is nerve wracking to drill holes in your boat but is a fun winter project. I have a 2013 F-21 with GSA & it works great but I believe most of the guys on this forum recommend "slapping it". Can also be DIY. Many threads on here on how to do both. Good luck. Private sale or not, I still would pursue the seller for fraud. 

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Just now, snow1wake said:

Plug/play ballast can be a DIY job. Wake Makers has kits with directions and there are many "how to" videos. Is nerve wracking to drill holes in your boat but is a fun winter project. I have a 2013 F-21 with GSA & it works great but I believe most of the guys on this forum recommend "slapping it". Can also be DIY. Many threads on here on how to do both. Good luck. Private sale or not, I still would pursue the seller for fraud. 

Thanks snow1wake.  I'll check out the plug/play.  MB dealer here said that plug/play isn't possible on this boat because it needs to be done at the factory... I'm not that familiar with it yet so need to see what he means.  

What do you mean "slapping it"?

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Even if it was a private party sale, the seller is still legally liable. The details of this transaction sound quite strange. 

 

See this write-up about "slappers"

http://www.mbboatowners.com/index.php?/topic/4331-slappers-kcso-part-1/

You're going to need a surf system and more ballast for a good surf wave. That's true for pretty much any 2014 boat.

You're wakeboard wake should be just fine stock. It will be affected by unbalanced weight especially at lower speeds. To fix this bleed off some of your ballast while underway to balance your weight. The clean side is the heavy side so open the ballast gate on that side to dump water until both sides look clean. 

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Before you dump a bunch of money into DIY slappers or even more in GSA or similar gates you could try a suction cup wedge. You can buy them for a couple hundred or you can DIY one for less than $50. I used one like the ones mentioned here, https://teamtalk.mastercraft.com/showthread.php?t=70442&page=84&t=70442&page=84, for my 2004 B52 and it worked great.

 

Once you get the wave you want from ballasts and devices you can start to automate.

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1 hour ago, kodenine said:

Before you dump a bunch of money into DIY slappers or even more in GSA or similar gates you could try a suction cup wedge. You can buy them for a couple hundred or you can DIY one for less than $50. I used one like the ones mentioned here, https://teamtalk.mastercraft.com/showthread.php?t=70442&page=84&t=70442&page=84, for my 2004 B52 and it worked great.

 

Once you get the wave you want from ballasts and devices you can start to automate.

Already have the Mission Wake Shaper.  

 

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Not sure what's up with your F22 2014, mine had a great wakeboard wake stock with tanks full.  Make sure your cav plate is working and your hard ballast tanks are not draining when you are running. I added plug and play ballasts in the rear lockers and up front, then slapped it and it surfed really good. I lifted my platform a couple inches to clean up the wave. I only ran  my cav plate at 25%-50% down.  It wasn't as good as my new B52 Aplha 575 beast, but it was good. That pic was on a wavey rough day so it wasn't the best20200801_092046.thumb.jpg.ccd79125a0d7ac2b6bd13bd213dbe486.jpg

20200802_204517.jpg

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1 hour ago, oboyskibum said:

Not sure what's up with your F22 2014, mine had a great wakeboard wake stock with tanks full.  Make sure your cav plate is working and your hard ballast tanks are not draining when you are running. I added plug and play ballasts in the rear lockers and up front, then slapped it and it surfed really good. I lifted my platform a couple inches to clean up the wave. I only ran  my cav plate at 25%-50% down.  It wasn't as good as my new B52 Aplha 575 beast, but it was good. That pic was on a wavey rough day so it wasn't the best20200801_092046.thumb.jpg.ccd79125a0d7ac2b6bd13bd213dbe486.jpg

20200802_204517.jpg

Thanks.
Ballasts are holding water.  
Cav Plate - I;ve tried all positions
I have a Mission Wake Shaper on it.  

The only thing I don't have is extra ballast.  I've got to say, I'm a little disappointed if I can't get a surfable wave with the stock 1800 lbs ballast.   I just got out of a much less expensive vdrive boat (15 years old too), and with only 800 lbs ballast it threw a WAY better wake than this.  

The other thing I'm thinking about is the prop.  I remember the seller saying he "upgraded" the prop.  Wondering if that screwed with everything.  Anyone an expert on props ?? :)  How can I tell what prop I have, and maybe can someone give me a rough clearance measurement from the top of the prop to the bottom of the hull?  I'm thinking if the prop is too large it could be messing with everything too. 

Thanks guys



 

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No expert here, but based on what I had read, 2016 hull is different than 2014. I would have been pissed if I paid for a  2016, and definitely would demand my money back. 

Sorry to hear this happened to you and good luck.

1 hour ago, widdogg said:

Oh... and one more thing... does anyone know if the hull design changed on the F22 between 2014 and 2016 or 2017?  

Thanks!

 

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Honestly I don't think the F22 hull got changed, the B52 hull got changed.  I surfed the F22 when it was new and it needed an extra 400 lbs back in 2014. The listed wave gets good with 800lbs in the rear locker and some weight up front. They started putting in plug and play when they started adding the surf systems.

The prop might very well be causing the rooster tail because I haven't heard anyone say they had that kind of problem and I have been involved in the forums since I bought my F22 new in 2014. found another pic for you mine was slapped. Its was the same day so it still had some wash due to bad conditions. This is the prop https://www.wakemakers.com/acme-2079-propeller.html

 

20200801_092044.jpg

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The F22 need more weight because the hull is deeper than most older V Drives in fact it was deeper than most any wakeboard boat in 2014. That why I bought it back then.  Also the hard tanks run froward in the boat so not all the weight is in the back cover.

Are you filling one tank 100% and the other about 50% so the boat is lists?

 

Check out the wake cookbook everyone uses plug and play or some kind of extra weight.

vhttps://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LkvTTvD6zbI8gORCEsvKuEI2D4IdqTGZDSoiFgVdGn4/edit#gid=0

 

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Everywhere here is awesome.  Thanks for all your comments.  Keep them coming if you have anything to say, I'm ingesting all the info as it comes in.  

@oboyskibum - I had surf side ballast full, other empty.  Tried both full, as well as maybe 25-50% full (non-surf side) like you mentioned.  (Also tried all combinations with wake shaper on/off). Wave was OK, but still washy and not enough push for me to let go.  I'm about 185-190lbs and have no problems surfing on other waves.  Very frustrated !!!!

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I hope you can dial it in @widdogg  

You must be a very calm and collected dude! If I thought I was buying a 2016 and it turned out to be a 2014, I would be livid.  Even if it surfed/waked well, I'd be upset purely based on depreciation alone and would be looking to be made whole or get my money back.                                                                                                                                                                                          

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as a 2014, this boat should have: 1800# Subfloor ballast, batteries in the floor under the windshield, 3- 5" round gauges multi, tach, zero off) and a GM based motor. Lastly, the last two digits of the HIN should say "14"

from 2014-2015 there were major changes to the boat, not necessarily the hull though. Ballast grew to 2800#, Raptor Motor, New "On-off" switches on gate valves, surf systems, and new square LCD in dash

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Just for reference, in our 2016 F22, we typically run a ballast load of between 4500 - 5500 for surfing depending upon the size of the crew that day.  For wakeboarding, we typically use no ballast at all (and zero cav plate deployment) but sometimes will fill the 2800 lbs of hard tank ballast.  With those hard tanks full, the wake is massive and very aggressive (too much for me).  

The dealership telling you that additional ballast can't be added is simply talking out of their a$$.  

Your boat should be more than capable of producing fantastic surf and wakeboard wakes once it is set up properly, which will include some form of wake shaping device or system for surf unless you want to run heavily listed.

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This is what I surfed on my 2014 F22 with slappers: an additional 1000# bags in each rear locker and about 500# bag in the bow. fill all bags and built in ballast tanks.  Drain non surf side Ballast tank to clean up wave and list the boat to the surf side. Prop may need to be adjusted per your elevation to get to surf speeds.

I found that out back in 2014 when I purchased my boat. I brought an extra 800# of ballast bags for the surf side to get a good wave during the dealer demo. The boats shack thought then wave worked stock but with an extra 800# on the surf side we found out how good the wave could get even without slappers or wake a suck gate.

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According to the internet world, vertical gates (GSA) require more ballast but are more fuel efficient. If I had a 2014 I would slap it. And yes the prop does effect your wave. I have 2 similarly pitched props but the wave is much better with the prop that my RPMs are higher.

The more ballast the better. In my 2016 F22 I have the 2800 sub floor, I believe they are 600's in each rear locker and I installed a 425lb bag under the seat in the bow. I want a 800ish bag to sit on the center of my floor for when I have a small crew. I prefer to list the boat and not even fill the starboard side bag for my regular surfers. I had a bigger crew down at Powell a month ago and my rub rail was almost touching the water. I had everyone sitting on the port side and the regular surf wave was insane. The goofy surfers are extremely lucky. Goofy side I even up the ballast no listing and I often have to adjust the cav plate down because the wave is over 5' tall if I don't. 

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Local Albertan here (albeit, boat lives in Invermere) - i have the same 2014 F22 as yours.

I've got the same stock ballast hard tanks (filled 100% on surf side, empty on other side), suction cup wedge (mission) on the opposite side, and a pair of 500lb sacks that i always keep full (lazy), Cav plate usually 1/3-1/2 way down and we can pull some pretty good surf waves. Lots of folks have surfed behind our boat and can't believe (for the equipment) how good it is. 

Can i ask what speed you're going? I didn't see it above. We are usually at 10.7 mph. I found speed made a huge difference on our wave. Our (non-lifted) platform doesn't affect the wave either. 

With that said, I can't find a picture of our wave now. I'll post one if i can find it. 

 

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