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Anybody actually weighed their boat with full tanks and average gear?


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The reason I ask is for the first time ever, I actually looked in the door jam of my Tundra Crew Max and saw the payload rating.  1270 pounds (yuck...thought it was more). I really don't trust MB's website, so I was wondering how much I could expect the boat to weigh with a full tank of gas and "average" gear (on the trailer).  I'd also be curious to know the the tongue weight in percentage or pounds if anyone has that info available.  I know it's different for each boat and trip to the lake, but looking for some general info. My boat will be 23/A 400 typically equipped.

The reason I ask is that my Toyota lease has about a year left on it, and I'm wondering if I actually need to start looking at a 3/4 ton rig to legally and comfortably pull my boat when it comes. I really think I am going to be payload challenged, especially on the long trips to powell where we are bring food and provisions with a butt in every seat. That being said, I'm not too excited about having to daily drive and park a HD/SD the other 95% of the time. 

Anyways....just curious because I know boats are getting heavier and heavier every year.  

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I would throw some air bags on it to level it out and help stiffen up the ride for now. Most of the new 3/4 ton truck ride great. When I had my F350 I used airbags when I towed my boat with a slide in camper, they worked great. I have been thinking about getting some for my Dodge power wagon as well.

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58 minutes ago, oboyskibum said:

I would throw some air bags on it to level it out and help stiffen up the ride for now. Most of the new 3/4 ton truck ride great. When I had my F350 I used airbags when I towed my boat with a slide in camper, they worked great. I have been thinking about getting some for my Dodge power wagon as well.

Thanks @oboyskibum

Crazy that now days a simple leisure boat is borderline half ton towable. I don't know much about air bags, but my issue is modifying a lease in any way. It's hard to invest money in a truck that won't even be mine in one year (I can't see myself buying it out). I assume air bags are a permanent install?? The rear leafs on the Tundra are definitely the weak leak, it has plenty of power to pull with a 4.3 rear end, but the payload sucks.

I'll definitely start researching the air bags as well as start looking at some 3/4 ton options for next year. I've heard the Ram 3/4 ton gasser is a sweet ride (coils) with tons of payload and tech. I just have to get over the stigma of the 80's Dodge of my youth.  

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Really the new surf boats don't fit into the leisure boat definition, like the old fish and ski boats. Every year they get heavier and bigger.

My Dodge Ram is a ton better truck than my Chevy piece of crap. My ford was better than my Chevy and it had the old 6.2 diesel motor others had issues with.

Airbags are a bolt-on item a lot of people install them as a DYI

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shit I load my 2016 tundra up when I go to powell (6hour drive) with the bed full. boat tank full of gas with gear loaded in and I can still bomb 80-85. Been doing that since my 2017 and my now 2020. It does just fine, but if you are worried, look into a 3/4 ton. Mine will sag alittle, but it doesn't bother me one bit. I did put 10 ply tires which is a must. Those tundras are very solid. But it still is a 1/2 ton gasser none the less. Oddly when I used my brothers 2017 ram 2500 cummins, I prefered the tundra any way. It just seemed to drive straighter and backed up and manuevered way easier then the ram. It had way more power at way lower rpms, But he was boasting how much better  gas mileage I would get compared to my tundra. My tundra gets 7-8 loaded up to powell. His truck was only 10 mpg unloaded up no grades just to pineview lol. +

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3 hours ago, bloodiestcadaver said:

shit I load my 2016 tundra up when I go to powell (6hour drive) with the bed full. boat tank full of gas with gear loaded in and I can still bomb 80-85. Been doing that since my 2017 and my now 2020. It does just fine, but if you are worried, look into a 3/4 ton. Mine will sag alittle, but it doesn't bother me one bit. I did put 10 ply tires which is a must. Those tundras are very solid. But it still is a 1/2 ton gasser none the less. Oddly when I used my brothers 2017 ram 2500 cummins, I prefered the tundra any way. It just seemed to drive straighter and backed up and manuevered way easier then the ram. It had way more power at way lower rpms, But he was boasting how much better  gas mileage I would get compared to my tundra. My tundra gets 7-8 loaded up to powell. His truck was only 10 mpg unloaded up no grades just to pineview lol. +

I appreciate the input and perspective !

No doubt the Tundra has the power to pull as well as most gasser HD's. She's a beast and I'm a Toyota fanboy fo sho. It's the payload that bothers me. Not because it can't handle it, but because I don't trust lawyers and insurance agents. If something were to happen not even remotely related to load factor, I could see people looking to find out if we were in the legal envelope so they could avoid responsibility or shift liability to my corner. 

Anyway....I've always used the rule of thumb that tongue weight is about 10-12% of gross trailer weight, but now I've read that on boats it may be only 7-8% which would make a difference. That's why it would be nice to know what the boat weighs. I'll probably run it over to Love's, the Lindon dump, or Flying J right after delivery. 

Regardless, it will be the Tundra this summer because I have another year left on the lease. Rumor has it the next gen Tundra will have substantially more payload than the current gen. If I could find a fairly loaded short bed half ton that has 1800-2000 pounds of payload, I'd prefer that over driving and maneuvering a HD/SD as a daily driver. 

 

(ps. When I refer to payload, I mean what's on the yellow sticker on the door jam, not the "max payload" found on a manufacturers website. Those are always from some theoretical build that no one buys.  Yeah the f150 ecoboost you love has a 2100 pound payload on the web specs but it's probably the regular cab 2X4 long bed XL with a bench vinyl seat and no carpet..lol. )

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I own a 2016 Tundra double cab. The payload is the amount of weight that you can haul in the bed. The number that you need to concern yourself with is the GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating). Look that up in your manual. Assuming that you have the 5.7 and 4X4 then your GCWR is right around 16,000 lbs. Tundra's weigh 5500 (double cab) to 5800 (Crewmax) last time I looked at my manual based on the config. My 16 F22 says 4100lbs dry and I estimate the trailer is 2000lbs. My Tundra is the 5500 + 4100 + 2000= 11,600lbs.  That leaves 4,400lbs for passengers, fuel and sandwiches, my point is you will be just fine towing. I have airbags sitting on the floor in my garage that I am planning to put on here in the next few days. My reasoning for the airbags is to stop the up and down bouncing from when you go over bumps. I also plan to get 10 ply tires installed in the next month. Also make sure that you have a proper weight rated hitch, the standard Reese tow kit from is only rated at 6k lbs because of the ball. I just picked up a B&W adjustable hitch for mine 10k lbs rated. You will want to get an adjustable one to make sure that trailer is level. If the trailer is out of level you will strain the axles differently. If the front of the trailer is low you'll put extra strain on that front axle. I plan to buy a big SUV so I can take some of my kids friends out in the next couple years so my Tundra is staying. I pulled my boat from Utah County to Wahweap, Powell at the end of last year and I went as fast as I wanted to go 70-75 mph the whole way. 

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17 hours ago, Guppydriver said:

I appreciate the input and perspective !

No doubt the Tundra has the power to pull as well as most gasser HD's. She's a beast and I'm a Toyota fanboy fo sho. It's the payload that bothers me. Not because it can't handle it, but because I don't trust lawyers and insurance agents. If something were to happen not even remotely related to load factor, I could see people looking to find out if we were in the legal envelope so they could avoid responsibility or shift liability to my corner. 

Anyway....I've always used the rule of thumb that tongue weight is about 10-12% of gross trailer weight, but now I've read that on boats it may be only 7-8% which would make a difference. That's why it would be nice to know what the boat weighs. I'll probably run it over to Love's, the Lindon dump, or Flying J right after delivery. 

Regardless, it will be the Tundra this summer because I have another year left on the lease. Rumor has it the next gen Tundra will have substantially more payload than the current gen. If I could find a fairly loaded short bed half ton that has 1800-2000 pounds of payload, I'd prefer that over driving and maneuvering a HD/SD as a daily driver. 

 

(ps. When I refer to payload, I mean what's on the yellow sticker on the door jam, not the "max payload" found on a manufacturers website. Those are always from some theoretical build that no one buys.  Yeah the f150 ecoboost you love has a 2100 pound payload on the web specs but it's probably the regular cab 2X4 long bed XL with a bench vinyl seat and no carpet..lol. )

according to the website, the dry weight to the classic 23(mine) and the alpha 23 (yours) is the same at 5200 lbs. over guessing the trailer maybe 2000 lbs. 390 lbs of fuel topped off, and maybe 500  in gear your just above 8000 lbs. I never calculated that but damn thats heavy lol.  I think max tow on a tundra was like 10k last I checked. Ive been leasing them since 2008 and this 2016 is the longest ive kept one.  so with that calculation your tongue weight is about 600-700 lbs. Really not too far off from recommended would be my guess.  Air bags will help your ride height, but it does nothing to take weight off your axles. tundra rear end is as beefy as a 3/4 ton, but it is still a semi floating axle in the rear

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8 hours ago, BTown801 said:

I own a 2016 Tundra double cab. The payload is the amount of weight that you can haul in the bed. The number that you need to concern yourself with is the GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating). Look that up in your manual. Assuming that you have the 5.7 and 4X4 then your GCWR is right around 16,000 lbs. Tundra's weigh 5500 (double cab) to 5800 (Crewmax) last time I looked at my manual based on the config. My 16 F22 says 4100lbs dry and I estimate the trailer is 2000lbs. My Tundra is the 5500 + 4100 + 2000= 11,600lbs.  That leaves 4,400lbs for passengers, fuel and sandwiches, my point is you will be just fine towing. I have airbags sitting on the floor in my garage that I am planning to put on here in the next few days. My reasoning for the airbags is to stop the up and down bouncing from when you go over bumps. I also plan to get 10 ply tires installed in the next month. Also make sure that you have a proper weight rated hitch, the standard Reese tow kit from is only rated at 6k lbs because of the ball. I just picked up a B&W adjustable hitch for mine 10k lbs rated. You will want to get an adjustable one to make sure that trailer is level. If the trailer is out of level you will strain the axles differently. If the front of the trailer is low you'll put extra strain on that front axle. I plan to buy a big SUV so I can take some of my kids friends out in the next couple years so my Tundra is staying. I pulled my boat from Utah County to Wahweap, Powell at the end of last year and I went as fast as I wanted to go 70-75 mph the whole way. 

The GCWR won't be an issue...Tundra can pull no doubt. Where I respectfully disagree, is with payload. Payload (which is VIN specific) is the amount of weight your truck (with a full tank of gas) can carry. It has nothing to do with what's in the bed. It's simply max gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) minus empty weight. You will hit max payload LOOONNGG before you come close to GCWR in any half ton.

Things included in payload would be occupants, luggage, gear and tongue weight. Your trucks specific payload can be found on the same sticker as your tire loading located on your driver side door jam. Mine is 1270 pounds. Five passengers in my truck at 150 pounds each would be 750 pounds. That leaves 520 pounds remaining.  If tongue weight is around 8-10% of 7000 pounds (conservative according to bloodie), then I am over by 130 pounds and I haven't even brought my Diet Dew in the truck with me.  

If you are driving around with 4400 pounds of stuff in your Tundra , please be careful. There is not even a 3/4 ton truck in existence that is rated to do so and a Tundra would be more than 3X over it's certified limit.  I'm not invalidating your experiences in any way, shape, or form, just letting you know that you are potentially operating the vehicle well outside it's rated limits. Lots of people do, I just personally worry about potential liability, because Murphy know exactly where I live. 

Here are a few useful videos. The first one demonstrates how his 9200 pound trailer can easily put his 2017 diesel pusher 3/4 ton Super Duty out of payload compliance. 

 

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1 hour ago, bloodiestcadaver said:

according to the website, the dry weight to the classic 23(mine) and the alpha 23 (yours) is the same at 5200 lbs. over guessing the trailer maybe 2000 lbs. 390 lbs of fuel topped off, and maybe 500  in gear your just above 8000 lbs. I never calculated that but damn thats heavy lol.  I think max tow on a tundra was like 10k last I checked. Ive been leasing them since 2008 and this 2016 is the longest ive kept one.  so with that calculation your tongue weight is about 600-700 lbs. Really not too far off from recommended would be my guess.  Air bags will help your ride height, but it does nothing to take weight off your axles. tundra rear end is as beefy as a 3/4 ton, but it is still a semi floating axle in the rear

No way the two boats weigh exactly the same though. It was never updated to Alpha specs. As a matter of fact, if you talk to MB they say the boat has a 102" beam, but the boat is listed on the website as having a 100" beam. When I get my boat, I'll be excited to weigh it and find the tongue weight so I can post it here!!

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@Guppydriver I didn't realize these trucks were as close as you posted on the payload. Mine is 1425. I guess you'll have to put your mtn dew in the boat. I'm within the payload on my truck with my F22. As I said above I'm doing the E rated tires, airbags, and a 10k rated hitch. I'm also about to pull the trigger on some bilstein shocks to make it ride smoother. It will be interesting to see what you weigh in at. Also I would ignore that towing a travel trailer RV video, those trailers are big wobbly billboards suceptible to sway. Your boat will be tow way better than a TT. Also don't buy clip on mirrors they are horrible. I tried some and they vibrated so bad at freeway speeds that I had to take them off, they were making me sick to look at them. I spent the $ and bought the OEM tow mirrors. 

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2 minutes ago, BTown801 said:

@Guppydriver I didn't realize these trucks were as close as you posted on the payload. Mine is 1425. I guess you'll have to put your mtn dew in the boat. I'm within the payload on my truck with my F22. As I said above I'm doing the E rated tires, airbags, and a 10k rated hitch. I'm also about to pull the trigger on some bilstein shocks to make it ride smoother. It will be interesting to see what you weigh in at. Also I would ignore that towing a travel trailer RV video, those trailers are big wobbly billboards suceptible to sway. Your boat will be tow way better than a TT. Also don't buy clip on mirrors they are horrible. I tried some and they vibrated so bad at freeway speeds that I had to take them off, they were making me sick to look at them. I spent the $ and bought the OEM tow mirrors. 

I'll keep you updated for sure! I'll be looking for your sweet F22 this summer. Yeah, the crew max makes a big difference.

Also, having a lease really limits me on what I want to do with my rig. I don't see myself keeping it when it expires, so I don't want to put money into it for only one summer's worth of towing. 

Some of the new half tons are getting better payload ratings, so I'll reevaluate my options next year and if I can't find a half ton in the 1700-2000 pound range, I'll bite the bullet for a 3/4 ton gasser.

Again, don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to be the payload police. I know these half tons can pull well and feel stable and safe when loaded up beyond their rating. I just have a personal preference to to make sure I'm within the trucks "letter of the law" rated envelope. I never want to give a reason a lawyer or insurance adjuster a reason to go after me. I have a big family, so every seat is usually full in my Tundra. Assuming 750 pounds in people and 700 in tongue weight, even 1500 pounds of payload gives me only 50 pounds left over. That's only one cooler....lol!!! 

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Here is my truck experience over the last 6 years, I pulled my old 2007 Tige RZ2 with a Ram 1500 Hemi and then a Ram 1500 EcoDiesel, both did fine, the Hemi actually pulled it better (the EcoDiesel is a POS in my humble opinion...) but got awful gas mileage. When I bought my B52 last summer I pulled it with my EcoDiesel and man it really struggled, the bigges thing I noticed was the stopping power and going up steep grades. After almost over-heating and blowing an engine on the way home from Lake Powell last July I had had enough. I bought a 2500 Cummins in August and have never been happier. I went to Powell 2 more times pulling the B52 with the Cummins, set the cruise at 80 and never fell below that even on the steep uphill climbs that I-15 has going to Powell. Also the biggest thing for me is I can stop much better with the Cummins, I had to slam on my brakes once for stopped traffic and with the exhaust brake on and the stopping power I had no problem coming to a stop, if I was pulling with my Hemi or EcoDiesel I would have for sure hit the car in front of me. The new Rams are amazing, heads and shoulders above what they produced in the 80's. I'm also looking at upgrading my trailer brakes to electric, so if anyone in Utah has leads on a good shop to do this let me know!

 

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21 minutes ago, schill38 said:

I'm also looking at upgrading my trailer brakes to electric, so if anyone in Utah has leads on a good shop to do this let me know!

 

Are you sure that's a good idea? Water and electricity don't work well together. Maybe I'm just not familiar with doing this but I thought surge brakes were the best for boat trailers. 

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43 minutes ago, AZ_MB said:

Are you sure that's a good idea? Water and electricity don't work well together. Maybe I'm just not familiar with doing this but I thought surge brakes were the best for boat trailers. 

Virtually every boat manufacturer offers EOH as a option for their trailer. I think everything electrical is pretty much found in the coupler.  My experience on other forums has been the guys/gals who have them are fanatical about them and would never own a trailer without them. The Problem is cost. When you have 2g extra to spend, it's hard to say no to the sweet racks or upgraded stereo as opposed to something you never see or use "on the boat".

I'm tempted to call my trailer manufacturer or TBS and just inquire what the damage would be for EOB. I love how easy they are to test and that you can always straighten a swaying trailer out by manually applying trailer brakes from your controller. 

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1 hour ago, schill38 said:

Here is my truck experience over the last 6 years, I pulled my old 2007 Tige RZ2 with a Ram 1500 Hemi and then a Ram 1500 EcoDiesel, both did fine, the Hemi actually pulled it better (the EcoDiesel is a POS in my humble opinion...) but got awful gas mileage. When I bought my B52 last summer I pulled it with my EcoDiesel and man it really struggled, the bigges thing I noticed was the stopping power and going up steep grades. After almost over-heating and blowing an engine on the way home from Lake Powell last July I had had enough. I bought a 2500 Cummins in August and have never been happier. I went to Powell 2 more times pulling the B52 with the Cummins, set the cruise at 80 and never fell below that even on the steep uphill climbs that I-15 has going to Powell. Also the biggest thing for me is I can stop much better with the Cummins, I had to slam on my brakes once for stopped traffic and with the exhaust brake on and the stopping power I had no problem coming to a stop, if I was pulling with my Hemi or EcoDiesel I would have for sure hit the car in front of me. The new Rams are amazing, heads and shoulders above what they produced in the 80's. I'm also looking at upgrading my trailer brakes to electric, so if anyone in Utah has leads on a good shop to do this let me know!

 

 

No doubt you were over payload on your EcoDiesel. Heck, to be honest, you are probably approaching payload max in your 2500 on trips to Powell.  Again, has nothing to do with "how well it tows".  I can't believe how far Ram has come. Certainly not my "Dad's Dodge". 

Just curious...Do you have the air suspension? I know the 2500 has rear coils, so probably not needed. 

Like I said, barring some significant gains in half tons next year, I'm going to give the HD/SD rigs a hard look. I think the Ram 2500 mega cab Hemi or the Ford Super Duty 7.3 gasser would be sweet. The diesels are amazing, but don't make sense for me cost wise. 

I agree with the EcoDiesel, never been a fan of that Italian motor. The baby max in the silverado is the only light diesel I would consider, it's a smooth inline 6, like your Cummins.

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I have the Dodge Power with the 6.4 and love it. The power wagon is a 2500 but the springs are softer for off roading. It pulls my boat great but struggles a little pulling my 32 foot bumper pull trailer pulling really steep grades (3 sisters) and at 3mpg on those pulls sucks. I will be adding some overload bags to level it out with heavy loads.  The one thing that isn't as great about the gas motors is they don't usually have the large fuel tanks the diesels have.

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1 hour ago, oboyskibum said:

I have the Dodge Power with the 6.4 and love it. The power wagon is a 2500 but the springs are softer for off roading. It pulls my boat great but struggles a little pulling my 32 foot bumper pull trailer pulling really steep grades (3 sisters) and at 3mpg on those pulls sucks. I will be adding some overload bags to level it out with heavy loads.  The one thing that isn't as great about the gas motors is they don't usually have the large fuel tanks the diesels have.

super annoying having tiny tanks. all my other tundras were 20-24 gallons. My current has a 38 and its nice that I can make it from slc to beaver with room to spare. Ford half tons have always had options for large tanks which i liked. and the eco boost with the new trans is the best performing half ton IMO. They just have a TON of timing and turbo issues which is unfortunate. 

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6 hours ago, AZ_MB said:

Are you sure that's a good idea? Water and electricity don't work well together. Maybe I'm just not familiar with doing this but I thought surge brakes were the best for boat trailers. 

My old boat trailer was electric over the surge brakes and in the 5 years of owning it I never had a problem, all the electrical components were in a water proof box at the front of the trailer...

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5 hours ago, Guppydriver said:

 

No doubt you were over payload on your EcoDiesel. Heck, to be honest, you are probably approaching payload max in your 2500 on trips to Powell.  Again, has nothing to do with "how well it tows".  I can't believe how far Ram has come. Certainly not my "Dad's Dodge". 

Just curious...Do you have the air suspension? I know the 2500 has rear coils, so probably not needed. 

Like I said, barring some significant gains in half tons next year, I'm going to give the HD/SD rigs a hard look. I think the Ram 2500 mega cab Hemi or the Ford Super Duty 7.3 gasser would be sweet. The diesels are amazing, but don't make sense for me cost wise. 

I agree with the EcoDiesel, never been a fan of that Italian motor. The baby max in the silverado is the only light diesel I would consider, it's a smooth inline 6, like your Cummins.

Yes the EcoDiesel was nothing but a royal pain in the A$$ the 3 years I owned it, I was crying happy tears the day I traded it in!!

I don't have the air suspension but my truck still rides like a dream. I put a BDS 2.5 inch leveling kit on it with some Nitto 35's and matched up the rims to my boat trailer and it makes me smile every time I look at the combo haha!!

Yes cost wise I don't know if the Cummins ultimately makes sense, but it's what I've always wanted and I don't regret it!! Having to put DEF in it, paying more for Diesel, changing fuel filters all adds up for sure...

Ram-MB Combo.jpg

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38 minutes ago, schill38 said:

Yes the EcoDiesel was nothing but a royal pain in the A$$ the 3 years I owned it, I was crying happy tears the day I traded it in!!

I don't have the air suspension but my truck still rides like a dream. I put a BDS 2.5 inch leveling kit on it with some Nitto 35's and matched up the rims to my boat trailer and it makes me smile every time I look at the combo haha!!

Yes cost wise I don't know if the Cummins ultimately makes sense, but it's what I've always wanted and I don't regret it!! Having to put DEF in it, paying more for Diesel, changing fuel filters all adds up for sure...

Ram-MB Combo.jpg

Damn man! That's a gorgeous combo! 

No doubt the gubment has ruined diesel motors with EGR's. 

I chuckled when you were talking about matching your rig to your boat. I've always liked black trucks, but my next one will be white or silver so only as to better match the boat!

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3 hours ago, schill38 said:

My old boat trailer was electric over the surge brakes and in the 5 years of owning it I never had a problem, all the electrical components were in a water proof box at the front of the trailer...

Guess this is more common than I knew. Thanks for the info. 

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11 hours ago, Guppydriver said:

Damn man! That's a gorgeous combo! 

No doubt the gubment has ruined diesel motors with EGR's. 

I chuckled when you were talking about matching your rig to your boat. I've always liked black trucks, but my next one will be white or silver so only as to better match the boat!

Thanks!! My last 2 trucks were black and I'm with you I never thought I would own another color...but black is SO hard to keep clean and it's been a nice change!!

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Regardless of what I do long term, I have to get through the next 12 months in my Tundra. Remember, it's a lease that I don't want to invest in or modify...

I just ordered these from etailer.com

Anybody used these ?


https://www.etrailer.com/Vehicle-Suspension/Timbren/TTORTUN4.html

 

$200 bucks. Easy to install. No drilling. This should bandaid my Tundra and bridge me to my next rig.

 

 

download.png

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I have no ide how those would work. To me is seems like airbags are the safest way to go because you can adjust the ride so that you are actually level vs still sagging and hitting a bump stop. Having the truck level puts the weight back on the front tires which is very important along with stopping the bounce you get from overloading the rear springs.

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